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[Music]

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hey guys how's it going welcome back to

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the channel um before we bring on my

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guest i just want to say thank you to

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everybody that's here watching this live

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anyone on youtube that watches it

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afterwards and anybody on the anomalous

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podcast network thank you so much

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also i just wanted to suggest to anybody

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that hasn't seen it already to go and

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check out check out tim mcmillan's

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article over on thedebrief.org

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a bombshell article today i highly

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recommend everybody going to read it

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and for everybody that is watching this

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live if you could please keep things

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respectful and clean in the live chat

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that would be much appreciated there's

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no need for any abuse or any negativity

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i mean

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you know what i'm trying to say i'd

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really appreciate that if you have any

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questions for rick today please leave

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them in capital letters then i get to

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see them or i've got more chance of

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seeing them

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um and all questions we'll we'll try and

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ask them

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if they're relevant to the conversation

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point they'll be talking about if not

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they will be left till the end of the

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interview

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i think that's it for now guys so uh

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please let me welcome our guest

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rick doty rick how's it going

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good danny

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thank you so much thank you so much for

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joining me i really appreciate you

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taking the time you're very welcome

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so i think before we get like into the

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main main interview rick if you could

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just give us a brief background on your

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yourself your career that would be a

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great start thank you

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well i'm richard doty i worked for the

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united states intelligence service from

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1978 to 1988

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i was worked for the air force office of

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special investigations as a

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counterintelligence officer

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i worked at various locations

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kirtland air force base was in near

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albuquerque new mexico

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and then i worked at the area 51

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both at the

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within the nellis test and training

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range

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there's two bases out there one is groom

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lake air force base and the other is

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tunnel by air force base i worked at

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both of those

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i had access to highly classified

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information for

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pertaining to ufos and the united states

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government's

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program

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investigating the the phenomena

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of uh ufos we call them ufos back in

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those days not uaps

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and there's other terminologies i'm sure

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we'll discuss later

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uh regarding that particular program um

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i worked right up until 1988

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and i got out

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and i worked for a number of different

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uh

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one being the institute for advanced

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studies at austin

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as dr put off's organization i worked

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there for 12 years

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and after that i uh

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i worked as a private consultant on

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movie sets i've been doing that for

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about

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10 years and i've also have

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a number of uh youtube videos and so

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forth that i've done over the years

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that's that's my background before

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before i

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he got into us intelligence

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i was in college

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and before that i was in a regular air

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force i served four years the united

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states air force got out went to college

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and it came back in

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working for united states intelligence

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lovely thank you pretty much in a

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nutshell

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that's great thank you thank you and so

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at what point did the ufo top topic or

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subject come into your career

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was it just suddenly on your desk one

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day

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no actually yeah actually that's exactly

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how it happened uh

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there was an incident that happened at

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kirtland air force base in 1979 early

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1970

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where a

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security guard had witnessed a

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landing of a craft out in a restricted

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area on the base

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at that point i wasn't i wasn't briefed

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into any special programs and these

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special programs are called special

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access programs or sap

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uh when i started investigating it

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uh i realized that uh

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it probably involves something that i

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hadn't been briefed into or that the

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government knew and i didn't know

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so i asked my supervisor i briefed him

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on what i was investigating uh then he

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uh sent me over to a special location on

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the base

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whereby i got a special briefing

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a special access program

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uh

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briefing on the subject of ufos and

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united states government's involvement

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with ufos and that briefing occurred uh

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in uh

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1979

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it was about a two and a half hour

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briefing it was by an air force colonel

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i was shown a uh i wasn't the only one

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in the room there

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some other people in the room i think 10

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or 12 other people that were being

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briefed in the same program i was

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uh we were so shown a video

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a united states government video or a

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movie and what we did in the videos that

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a movie a 16 millimeter projector movie

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uh which included uh uh part of a

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recovery

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uh

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near roswell in 1947.

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uh and then we were briefed on what the

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united states government has been doing

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from 1947 on

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and that's when i realized that we

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had a captured ufo in 1947

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we found another one in 1949 we had a

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live alien

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from 1947 to 1952 when he died

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and i was also briefed in other

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crashes that occurred after that so i

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was briefed into the program which had

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assisted me in the investigation of the

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incident that

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happened on the kirtland air force base

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in an area called coyote canyon

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and that's uh that's my beginning

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excellent i mean you've already said

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that about crashes and alien bodies i

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mean that must be like highly classified

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information so how is it that you're

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able to freely talk about it so easily

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it was

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at that point

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back in those days um and this is set in

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1979

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uh it was classified it was highly

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classified back then

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but over the years that information's

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almost not everything but

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a lot of information that the government

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had tied up in a special access program

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has been leaked

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or been spoken about

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and i had a non-disclosure statement a a

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agreement with the government when i got

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out 1980 but that expired now there are

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certain things that i won't talk about

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but the mere fact that we had uh two

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captured uh ufos back in those days

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that i knew about that i was briefed in

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two

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and one live alien that uh we found at a

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crash site near cronin new mexico or or

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people call it the roswell crash

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actually the crash the actual craft

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crashed near corona new mexico which is

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north about 70 miles north of roswell

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and then the second craft we found out

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west of their near horse mason new

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though all that information has been

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released the roswell uh

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the number of books

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regarding the roswell internet but

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few people get have have it all right i

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mean stan friedman had it right and some

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other people have had it right

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uh and there's some books out there that

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have it completely wrong

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but i was briefed into the official

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program i know what officially happened

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and i'll just accept what the government

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told me what happened

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fair enough yep can't argue with that um

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now it said that osi spied on civilian

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ufo researchers even breaking and

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entering homes and feeding them

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disinformation

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can you tell us about that and why they

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felt the need to go to such lengths were

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they getting close to the truth what was

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the reasons behind all that

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well the united states government has

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such a thing as a counterintelligence

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network around uh vital installations

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uh and believe it or not the the british

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mod

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uh mi5 and mi6 has exact same program as

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we do in fact

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uh

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and and i'm sure

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most of you know that the the minister

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of defense has a counterintelligence uh

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uh part uh that they have and and and

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the and the object of that is to protect

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the installations just like we we have

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to protect our military installations in

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the united states

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and one way one of the way ways we do it

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is we set up a counterintelligence

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network outside the base

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and that protects us against foreign

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intrusions

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foreign spies now remember back in those

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days we got a cold war going on

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yes

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uh trying to spy on us of course we were

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trying to spy on them too

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so we set up a counterintelligence

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network around the base and and and that

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involves

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uh finding out what the what everybody's

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doing and what everybody's collecting

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and a side note on this is the ufo

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community

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was doing we want to know know what

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information they had

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and whether they had been penetrated by

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soviet

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or other hostile intelligence agencies

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such as the chinese or east german and

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so forth so in order to do that we would

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have to penetrate

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uh those agencies and keep an eye on

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what and what they were doing and what

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they were

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were gathering now

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i've never been involved

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with any in

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operations

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threatened

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ufo researchers

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all we did was

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kept track of what they knew

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we never tried to influence them at

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least i never did

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but we had to keep track of what they

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what they were doing and and what they

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knew and and an example of this

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is bill moore

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i mean most people following the

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phenomena ufo phenomena back in the late

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70s and 80s no bill moore he wrote he

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wrote the first book on roswell him and

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charles burlitz

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i think it was a very very good book uh

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one of one of the

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the few things that people don't know

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uh is that there's a lot of information

287
00:11:49,350 --> 00:11:47,519
about roswell that bill had

288
00:11:51,269 --> 00:11:49,360
had found out about that wasn't in the

289
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:51,279
book and there's reasons why it was

290
00:11:57,829 --> 00:11:52,880
never

291
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:57,839
besides that we we recruited uh bill

292
00:12:02,069 --> 00:12:00,240
moore because he was a member of mufon a

293
00:12:04,310 --> 00:12:02,079
pro cause

294
00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:04,320
and uh

295
00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:06,480
he kept track of what they knew and he

296
00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:09,360
told us what they knew but

297
00:12:15,990 --> 00:12:13,360
at no time did we ever influence

298
00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:16,000
uh i never broke into any uh

299
00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:17,200
mufon

300
00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:18,800
uh uh

301
00:12:23,030 --> 00:12:20,560
members houses

302
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:23,040
uh i know i know what that's i know why

303
00:12:27,750 --> 00:12:25,040
you said that and we'll talk about paul

304
00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:27,760
benowitz in a in a little bit but

305
00:12:30,629 --> 00:12:28,800
um

306
00:12:33,509 --> 00:12:30,639
so we just kept track of it now bill

307
00:12:35,350 --> 00:12:33,519
moore had other other uh connections

308
00:12:37,509 --> 00:12:35,360
with us and that dealt with counter

309
00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:37,519
espionage because he had he had

310
00:12:41,430 --> 00:12:38,560
information

311
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:41,440
uh pertaining to and he had at contacts

312
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:44,000
uh within the soviet union and so that's

313
00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:46,000
that's a this different

314
00:12:49,030 --> 00:12:48,240
program so to speak but

315
00:12:51,590 --> 00:12:49,040
uh

316
00:12:54,550 --> 00:12:51,600
we never broke into any i didn't osi

317
00:12:58,870 --> 00:12:54,560
never broke into any uh researchers

318
00:12:59,590 --> 00:12:58,880
mufon or a pro or causes uh residences

319
00:13:04,069 --> 00:12:59,600
and

320
00:13:09,030 --> 00:13:04,079
them we never threatened them

321
00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:11,350
okay no problem so i mean let's talk

322
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:12,959
about paul benowitz because

323
00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:15,600
unfortunately people do associate the

324
00:13:20,710 --> 00:13:18,480
disinformation in your um interactions

325
00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:20,720
with him to to be an influence on what

326
00:13:24,629 --> 00:13:22,240
happened to him so

327
00:13:27,269 --> 00:13:24,639
can you break that down and sort of lay

328
00:13:29,430 --> 00:13:27,279
out to us how it really went down or

329
00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:29,440
your side of things

330
00:13:36,870 --> 00:13:33,200
well paul binowitz uh was a he owned a

331
00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:36,880
a a company right outside the base

332
00:13:41,030 --> 00:13:39,120
of kirtland air force base

333
00:13:43,590 --> 00:13:41,040
uh it was called

334
00:13:46,150 --> 00:13:43,600
thunder scientific laboratories

335
00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:46,160
he made environmental sensors

336
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:47,120
for

337
00:13:53,350 --> 00:13:49,440
u.s submarines so he had a

338
00:13:55,750 --> 00:13:53,360
industrial security clearance he had uh

339
00:13:57,030 --> 00:13:55,760
and he made sensitive things for the

340
00:13:59,350 --> 00:13:57,040
government of the united states

341
00:14:00,949 --> 00:13:59,360
government not just the censors for the

342
00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:00,959
submarines but

343
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:03,360
other things for united states navy

344
00:14:07,350 --> 00:14:05,279
he lived right outside the base right

345
00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:07,360
outside one of the largest nuclear

346
00:14:11,430 --> 00:14:10,560
weapons storage areas in the free world

347
00:14:13,829 --> 00:14:11,440
and

348
00:14:16,629 --> 00:14:13,839
he started seeing objects flying around

349
00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:16,639
the base kirtland air force base so he

350
00:14:20,949 --> 00:14:18,800
was photographing those objects

351
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:20,959
he also set up uh

352
00:14:25,269 --> 00:14:23,279
scientific collection

353
00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:25,279
devices now paul benowitz was a

354
00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:28,240
physicist he was a scientist

355
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:29,680
and eventually he thought there was a

356
00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:32,240
threat to the base so he went to

357
00:14:36,870 --> 00:14:34,240
uh the uh

358
00:14:39,110 --> 00:14:36,880
the chief of security for manzano base

359
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:39,120
which was where the nuclear weapons uh

360
00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:40,560
was stored

361
00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:43,199
the uh the person he contacted was a

362
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:45,120
lieutenant air force lieutenant colonel

363
00:14:49,350 --> 00:14:46,560
ernie edwards

364
00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:49,360
was

365
00:14:52,550 --> 00:14:50,560
seeing

366
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:52,560
near the base

367
00:14:57,430 --> 00:14:55,440
well uh me being the counterintelligence

368
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:57,440
officer for the base

369
00:15:01,030 --> 00:14:59,920
ernie edwards and i knew him very well

370
00:15:03,030 --> 00:15:01,040
he attended

371
00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:03,040
most of our security meetings he

372
00:15:06,710 --> 00:15:05,360
immediately called me and said listen uh

373
00:15:07,910 --> 00:15:06,720
rick i need you to come down to the

374
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:07,920
office i have something very very

375
00:15:10,949 --> 00:15:09,680
important to tell tell you

376
00:15:12,629 --> 00:15:10,959
so i did i went down there and he

377
00:15:14,790 --> 00:15:12,639
briefed me on the paul benowitz what

378
00:15:16,949 --> 00:15:14,800
paul benoit's told him

379
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:16,959
we immediately started an investigation

380
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:18,079
because there was

381
00:15:24,949 --> 00:15:19,920
uh

382
00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:24,959
indication of a threat to the base

383
00:15:29,110 --> 00:15:27,360
paul saw these things flying around

384
00:15:30,470 --> 00:15:29,120
we didn't know what they were i mean at

385
00:15:31,749 --> 00:15:30,480
least i hadn't been briefed into that

386
00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:31,759
program

387
00:15:39,269 --> 00:15:32,880
so

388
00:15:41,829 --> 00:15:39,279
out to paul benowitz's uh uh office uh

389
00:15:43,269 --> 00:15:41,839
that thunder scientific uh

390
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:43,279
laboratories

391
00:15:46,470 --> 00:15:45,120
i introduced myself

392
00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:46,480
as a counterintelligence officer i

393
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:48,160
didn't hide anything

394
00:15:53,749 --> 00:15:51,040
i said you you provided information to

395
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:53,759
uh lieutenant colonel ernie edwards and

396
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:56,399
we're interested in what you you had

397
00:16:00,310 --> 00:15:58,320
well paul opened up

398
00:16:02,389 --> 00:16:00,320
paul

399
00:16:04,870 --> 00:16:02,399
completely

400
00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:04,880
opened up about what he was doing

401
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:06,240
what he saw

402
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:08,560
what he photographed showed us the

403
00:16:12,629 --> 00:16:10,079
photographs

404
00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:12,639
uh thought there was a threat

405
00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:14,320
paul had served in the united states

406
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:18,320
navy he was a patriotic american

407
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:19,440
he had a

408
00:16:24,710 --> 00:16:22,079
scientific laboratory that provided very

409
00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:24,720
sensitive electronic devices to the

410
00:16:28,629 --> 00:16:26,320
united states navy

411
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:28,639
uh so he was concerned he was he was

412
00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:30,720
really concerned

413
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:33,360
now a side note about paul

414
00:16:38,949 --> 00:16:36,480
paul had been a member of apro

415
00:16:42,389 --> 00:16:38,959
since 1960.

416
00:16:44,069 --> 00:16:42,399
paul was a strong believer in ufos alien

417
00:16:46,790 --> 00:16:44,079
contacts

418
00:16:48,550 --> 00:16:46,800
so he already knew this he already knew

419
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:48,560
about aliens

420
00:16:54,870 --> 00:16:51,440
he after a couple meetings with paul he

421
00:16:57,509 --> 00:16:54,880
he connected what he was seeing

422
00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:57,519
with ets your extraterrestrials

423
00:17:01,350 --> 00:17:00,000
so that's how that connection occurred

424
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:01,360
now

425
00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:04,319
what paul was actually filming and this

426
00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:06,559
is not classified anymore

427
00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:07,919
were the

428
00:17:13,270 --> 00:17:10,640
united states air force's drone program

429
00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:13,280
we started a drone program the air force

430
00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:17,280
did back in the early 70s and early 80s

431
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:20,400
and the way that the drones were

432
00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:22,480
tested back in those days was there

433
00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:25,120
would be an airplane flying a mother

434
00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:27,360
mother ship so to speak

435
00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:28,799
and these

436
00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:31,440
drones would fly out of the airplane the

437
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:34,080
air force plane and being controlled by

438
00:17:38,789 --> 00:17:36,960
operators with inside that plane that

439
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:38,799
close proximity

440
00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:41,760
and so what paul was taking pictures of

441
00:17:44,710 --> 00:17:43,679
were these drones flying around this

442
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:44,720
airplane

443
00:17:49,190 --> 00:17:46,960
and air force plane and

444
00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:49,200
and paw immediately thought that there

445
00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:52,240
were ufos flying around a a an air force

446
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:53,200
plane

447
00:17:57,430 --> 00:17:54,960
we never told paul

448
00:17:59,510 --> 00:17:57,440
initially we didn't tell him initially

449
00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:59,520
eventually we did but not initially we

450
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:01,360
didn't tell him that was an air force

451
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:03,600
project at that time that drone program

452
00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:06,559
was highly classified highly classified

453
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:08,480
so we didn't tell him that

454
00:18:13,029 --> 00:18:11,919
now a few other things paul uh evolved

455
00:18:16,230 --> 00:18:13,039
into

456
00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:16,240
uh was that uh we had a uh

457
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:18,320
national security agency site on the

458
00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:19,520
base

459
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:22,080
and that uh site was highly classified

460
00:18:25,590 --> 00:18:23,280
the fact that it was there was

461
00:18:27,430 --> 00:18:25,600
classified it's not classified anymore

462
00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:27,440
not anything i'm telling you now is that

463
00:18:29,590 --> 00:18:28,720
classified

464
00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:29,600
uh

465
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:32,240
paul was photographing

466
00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:34,640
strange occurrences coming from that

467
00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:36,720
national security agency to their nsa

468
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:37,840
site

469
00:18:42,310 --> 00:18:39,360
and he also

470
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:42,320
collected signal or intelligence signal

471
00:18:46,310 --> 00:18:44,960
uh frequencies coming from there

472
00:18:47,669 --> 00:18:46,320
and

473
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:47,679
what paul

474
00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:48,640
uh

475
00:18:52,950 --> 00:18:50,400
accidentally i think

476
00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:52,960
uh got himself into

477
00:18:56,070 --> 00:18:54,480
or tapped into

478
00:18:58,310 --> 00:18:56,080
was a highly class another highly

479
00:19:00,549 --> 00:18:58,320
classified program where we were

480
00:19:02,230 --> 00:19:00,559
firing a laser

481
00:19:04,150 --> 00:19:02,240
up in the sky

482
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:04,160
and blinding soviet satellites as they

483
00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:05,760
were going over

484
00:19:09,029 --> 00:19:07,760
the area of the base

485
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:09,039
and

486
00:19:13,830 --> 00:19:11,520
it's not classified anymore but but at

487
00:19:14,789 --> 00:19:13,840
that time obviously it was

488
00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:14,799
so

489
00:19:18,470 --> 00:19:16,640
putting all those things together we had

490
00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:18,480
to convince paul

491
00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:20,480
we didn't want to release

492
00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:22,640
the fact that he tapped into a too

493
00:19:28,150 --> 00:19:24,799
highly classified programs

494
00:19:30,150 --> 00:19:28,160
so i suggested to paul that maybe

495
00:19:31,669 --> 00:19:30,160
what he was seeing were

496
00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:31,679
real ufos

497
00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:33,760
alien spaceships

498
00:19:36,390 --> 00:19:34,720
and

499
00:19:39,029 --> 00:19:36,400
it didn't take much to convince him

500
00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:39,039
otherwise because he already believed it

501
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:40,640
that's how

502
00:19:45,750 --> 00:19:43,200
the disinformation started with paul i

503
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:45,760
didn't have to fool him i didn't have to

504
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:47,679
present him with anything

505
00:19:51,990 --> 00:19:50,000
i just had to put the suggestion in his

506
00:19:53,590 --> 00:19:52,000
mind me and others there were other

507
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:53,600
people involved in this

508
00:19:57,990 --> 00:19:56,480
and uh and bob paul ran with it and i we

509
00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:58,000
told paul listen

510
00:20:02,149 --> 00:19:59,840
this is classified part you can't tell

511
00:20:04,390 --> 00:20:02,159
anybody well well he didn't

512
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:04,400
except with exception of a few people

513
00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:08,080
such as uh alan heineck uh he who was

514
00:20:13,350 --> 00:20:10,320
involved in this program and some others

515
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:13,360
but uh that's how the paul bennowitz uh

516
00:20:16,549 --> 00:20:14,640
uh

517
00:20:18,470 --> 00:20:16,559
project occurred

518
00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:18,480
no i appreciate you giving us to

519
00:20:22,149 --> 00:20:20,480
giving us that and just before you move

520
00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:22,159
on the two programs the classified

521
00:20:24,950 --> 00:20:23,520
programs that you mentioned the laser

522
00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:24,960
and the drone do you happen to know the

523
00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:28,720
code names for either of those projects

524
00:20:37,430 --> 00:20:34,320
uh the drone program um

525
00:20:40,149 --> 00:20:37,440
was amber something and i i don't i

526
00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:40,159
don't remember the nsa program the nsa

527
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:41,360
uh

528
00:20:50,710 --> 00:20:49,440
what it was i had to get briefed into

529
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:50,720
the program

530
00:20:53,590 --> 00:20:52,080
with nsa

531
00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:53,600
and that of course presented a lot of

532
00:20:59,990 --> 00:20:55,600
problems because

533
00:21:01,669 --> 00:21:00,000
when we when we briefed nsa uh security

534
00:21:04,789 --> 00:21:01,679
uh they immediately began their own

535
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:04,799
investigation unbeknownst to us

536
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:07,360
they had a parallel investigation going

537
00:21:11,510 --> 00:21:09,840
on as we did now our investigation

538
00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:11,520
involved the fbi

539
00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:15,120
um because we the fbi is responsible for

540
00:21:19,270 --> 00:21:17,679
any type of uh espionage occurring in

541
00:21:21,190 --> 00:21:19,280
the united states so we had to bring the

542
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:21,200
fbi into us

543
00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:24,400
and the nsa didn't nsa had a

544
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:26,320
purely uh secretive

545
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:28,080
investigation program

546
00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:29,280
and so

547
00:21:34,870 --> 00:21:31,760
uh i eventually got briefed into it but

548
00:21:36,549 --> 00:21:34,880
it took some time to do that

549
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:36,559
no that's fair enough um

550
00:21:40,310 --> 00:21:38,880
no i mean i suppose you didn't know what

551
00:21:42,070 --> 00:21:40,320
the outcome would be when it came to

552
00:21:44,310 --> 00:21:42,080
paul bennewitz but i mean i suppose at

553
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:44,320
the end of it did you feel any kind of

554
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:46,559
guilt or regret or how of even being a

555
00:21:50,549 --> 00:21:48,880
part in what happened to him how did it

556
00:21:51,909 --> 00:21:50,559
make you feel

557
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:51,919
well

558
00:21:56,549 --> 00:21:53,919
the paul bennowitz case

559
00:21:57,830 --> 00:21:56,559
uh it was his project was called seven

560
00:22:01,110 --> 00:21:57,840
lambs

561
00:22:04,630 --> 00:22:01,120
of paul winowitz

562
00:22:05,510 --> 00:22:04,640
uh and that's been released uh before um

563
00:22:06,870 --> 00:22:05,520
there's

564
00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:06,880
there are a lot of other things that

565
00:22:09,909 --> 00:22:08,000
occurred

566
00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:09,919
regarding this project in this

567
00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:13,440
investigation that just that

568
00:22:17,909 --> 00:22:16,000
paul bennowitz was a pilot

569
00:22:20,950 --> 00:22:17,919
uh if he flew uh

570
00:22:22,710 --> 00:22:20,960
his own cessna a single-engine

571
00:22:25,669 --> 00:22:22,720
cessna 182

572
00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:25,679
and he flew around taking pictures well

573
00:22:30,149 --> 00:22:28,640
paul actually photographed some real

574
00:22:32,870 --> 00:22:30,159
ufos

575
00:22:35,909 --> 00:22:32,880
which uh he he came back and showed us

576
00:22:38,310 --> 00:22:35,919
he had his own uh photo lab so he

577
00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:38,320
developed his own photos and showed us

578
00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:41,120
these things

579
00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:42,480
paul also

580
00:22:45,830 --> 00:22:44,320
was given a

581
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:45,840
a monitor

582
00:22:51,029 --> 00:22:48,880
a computer monitor by alan heineck

583
00:22:53,669 --> 00:22:51,039
unbeknownst to us

584
00:22:56,789 --> 00:22:53,679
and that computer monitor

585
00:22:59,190 --> 00:22:56,799
was uh exchanging itself because

586
00:23:01,669 --> 00:22:59,200
back in those days in the 1980s

587
00:23:04,470 --> 00:23:01,679
commodore made

588
00:23:07,190 --> 00:23:04,480
a computer a small computer

589
00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:07,200
but didn't make anything in color

590
00:23:13,190 --> 00:23:11,200
well somehow paul got his he got color

591
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:13,200
he was taking screenshots with his

592
00:23:15,510 --> 00:23:14,400
camera

593
00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:15,520
of of

594
00:23:19,350 --> 00:23:17,600
colored photographs on his computer we

595
00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:19,360
don't know how he did that in fact we

596
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:20,480
eventually

597
00:23:26,070 --> 00:23:21,280
uh

598
00:23:28,789 --> 00:23:26,080
computer monitor

599
00:23:30,549 --> 00:23:28,799
and tried to figure out how that worked

600
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:30,559
paul thought all along that he had

601
00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:34,000
contact with et's he was getting strange

602
00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:39,200
uh signals uh strain writings alpha uh

603
00:23:43,350 --> 00:23:41,760
he calls it the alien alphabet

604
00:23:45,269 --> 00:23:43,360
um

605
00:23:46,630 --> 00:23:45,279
and he was taking camera shots i

606
00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:46,640
shouldn't say screenshots but he said

607
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:48,480
camera shots of them

608
00:23:51,510 --> 00:23:49,679
and so we

609
00:23:53,110 --> 00:23:51,520
we had that d we we had to deal with

610
00:23:56,630 --> 00:23:53,120
that trying to figure out what he was

611
00:23:58,549 --> 00:23:56,640
doing how he was uh seeing these things

612
00:24:01,350 --> 00:23:58,559
uh and whether in fact maybe he really

613
00:24:04,230 --> 00:24:01,360
was in contact with the et's

614
00:24:06,630 --> 00:24:04,240
and then on the other side of this

615
00:24:09,669 --> 00:24:06,640
was the other complex investigation

616
00:24:13,590 --> 00:24:09,679
involving one of his employees

617
00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:13,600
who actually had contacts with a

618
00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:15,520
a foreign government

619
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:17,200
so we had an espionage investigation

620
00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:18,400
going on

621
00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:20,320
so all those things dealt

622
00:24:25,510 --> 00:24:22,480
into the paul benowitz story which the

623
00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:25,520
the investigation lasted seven years

624
00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:27,600
uh eventually ended

625
00:24:32,230 --> 00:24:30,080
uh i maintained friendship with paula

626
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:32,240
during this time period i eventually

627
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:33,520
told paul

628
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:35,120
you know what you were seeing was

629
00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:37,440
something you know what what you

630
00:24:41,590 --> 00:24:39,440
initially was seeing the photographs you

631
00:24:42,470 --> 00:24:41,600
were seeing came from

632
00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:42,480
uh

633
00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:44,320
a drone program and another highly

634
00:24:46,390 --> 00:24:45,760
classified book well he wouldn't believe

635
00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:46,400
me

636
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:49,600
know they're ufos

637
00:24:52,870 --> 00:24:51,760
he he would never believe anything other

638
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:52,880
than what he

639
00:24:57,430 --> 00:24:56,320
uh regarding the ufos

640
00:24:59,350 --> 00:24:57,440
now

641
00:25:00,710 --> 00:24:59,360
you spoke earlier about breaking into

642
00:25:02,870 --> 00:25:00,720
people houses

643
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:02,880
paul bennowitz uh during this

644
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:04,559
investigative

645
00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:08,080
investigation gave us carte blanc

646
00:25:12,630 --> 00:25:10,000
permission to enter his residence any

647
00:25:14,470 --> 00:25:12,640
time we needed to he gave us his key he

648
00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:14,480
gave us a written document

649
00:25:17,269 --> 00:25:16,000
saying yeah you can go in anytime you

650
00:25:19,590 --> 00:25:17,279
want to

651
00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:19,600
we did we did do that

652
00:25:23,590 --> 00:25:22,080
in initial phases of our investigation

653
00:25:25,909 --> 00:25:23,600
we wanted to make sure paul wasn't

654
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:25,919
making all this up

655
00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:27,200
and there were a number of things

656
00:25:32,070 --> 00:25:29,039
happened and we saw

657
00:25:34,390 --> 00:25:32,080
uh which maybe i can talk about later

658
00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:34,400
uh that that made me think that there

659
00:25:38,310 --> 00:25:35,440
was something

660
00:25:41,430 --> 00:25:38,320
to what paul was saying about his house

661
00:25:42,789 --> 00:25:41,440
being monitored by something

662
00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:42,799
that could very well been

663
00:25:48,470 --> 00:25:46,240
extraterrestrial but uh that's how

664
00:25:49,510 --> 00:25:48,480
we entered his ball it was

665
00:25:52,549 --> 00:25:49,520
we

666
00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:55,110
oh i lost you there for a second sorry

667
00:25:59,110 --> 00:25:57,440
right i think you're back now

668
00:26:01,430 --> 00:25:59,120
um melissa i appreciate you go can you

669
00:26:02,789 --> 00:26:01,440
hear me okay yeah i can hear you okay

670
00:26:05,029 --> 00:26:02,799
great no worries no worries i wasn't

671
00:26:07,269 --> 00:26:05,039
sure if we'd frozen or anything um no

672
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:07,279
again i appreciate you you uh giving us

673
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:09,520
the the lowdown on that but now the next

674
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:11,120
thing i'd like to speak about is the

675
00:26:16,390 --> 00:26:14,640
aviary um so

676
00:26:17,830 --> 00:26:16,400
i've got a few questions before we do so

677
00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:17,840
can you just give us a breakdown of how

678
00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:19,120
that came about

679
00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:21,120
if you don't mind

680
00:26:25,029 --> 00:26:22,000
well

681
00:26:29,909 --> 00:26:25,039
the average uh was a special group of

682
00:26:31,909 --> 00:26:29,919
people now we didn't name it averary

683
00:26:33,350 --> 00:26:31,919
we had it we had this special group of

684
00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:33,360
people that met

685
00:26:38,870 --> 00:26:36,320
uh beginning in the 1980s early but 1980

686
00:26:42,549 --> 00:26:38,880
actually october 1980

687
00:26:46,230 --> 00:26:42,559
and we met uh i was uh brought into it

688
00:26:48,149 --> 00:26:46,240
uh as a neophyte i mean i was just young

689
00:26:50,789 --> 00:26:48,159
uh intelligence officer

690
00:26:52,310 --> 00:26:50,799
uh didn't know much about the subject

691
00:26:53,590 --> 00:26:52,320
there were a lot of people that were

692
00:26:54,789 --> 00:26:53,600
brought into this

693
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:54,799
uh group

694
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:55,760
that were

695
00:27:01,190 --> 00:26:59,520
seasoned intelligence officers

696
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:01,200
the leader of our group

697
00:27:06,630 --> 00:27:04,240
was richard helms who was a former

698
00:27:09,590 --> 00:27:06,640
director of central intelligence agency

699
00:27:11,590 --> 00:27:09,600
uh he wasn't uh involved uh directly

700
00:27:12,870 --> 00:27:11,600
with the government at that time

701
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:12,880
and there were a number of other people

702
00:27:16,390 --> 00:27:15,200
that were brought in kit green dr hal

703
00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:16,400
put off

704
00:27:19,510 --> 00:27:17,360
uh

705
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:19,520
and a number of other people

706
00:27:25,669 --> 00:27:20,880
and

707
00:27:27,029 --> 00:27:25,679
trying to figure out

708
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:27,039
how we can

709
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:28,799
disclose

710
00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:30,480
the subject

711
00:27:35,029 --> 00:27:32,720
to the public

712
00:27:36,389 --> 00:27:35,039
in a common sense

713
00:27:37,830 --> 00:27:36,399
manner

714
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:37,840
that would not

715
00:27:44,950 --> 00:27:41,039
number one endanger national security

716
00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:44,960
release anything that was classified

717
00:27:49,269 --> 00:27:47,120
and not upset

718
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:49,279
the public

719
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:52,000
and so that's what our goal was we met

720
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:54,240
periodically about every three months or

721
00:27:58,070 --> 00:27:55,440
so

722
00:28:00,389 --> 00:27:58,080
we were quasi-government

723
00:28:01,350 --> 00:28:00,399
we were supported by the government

724
00:28:03,029 --> 00:28:01,360
uh

725
00:28:03,909 --> 00:28:03,039
indirectly

726
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:03,919
and

727
00:28:08,789 --> 00:28:07,520
we uh reported to the government

728
00:28:11,510 --> 00:28:08,799
and we

729
00:28:12,789 --> 00:28:11,520
uh the government kept track of of us

730
00:28:14,549 --> 00:28:12,799
now

731
00:28:16,389 --> 00:28:14,559
bill moore and a guy by name

732
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:16,399
jamie shandera

733
00:28:20,630 --> 00:28:18,720
learned about the group

734
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:20,640
they they're they're the ones that named

735
00:28:23,590 --> 00:28:22,320
us

736
00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:23,600
bird names

737
00:28:29,350 --> 00:28:27,120
so the aviary uh you know we weren't no

738
00:28:32,230 --> 00:28:29,360
no known as the avere within our group

739
00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:32,240
we were we were just a working group

740
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:35,039
and that and and and we uh and that's

741
00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:36,240
what we did

742
00:28:41,269 --> 00:28:38,720
uh sometime in the uh

743
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:41,279
uh 84 or 85

744
00:28:44,870 --> 00:28:43,520
uh i bet with bill moore who told me

745
00:28:46,710 --> 00:28:44,880
about

746
00:28:49,590 --> 00:28:46,720
this group

747
00:28:50,789 --> 00:28:49,600
and i said well uh he said you guys have

748
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:50,799
names

749
00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:52,720
and then he and that's how the average

750
00:28:57,190 --> 00:28:54,720
came into existence as far as the

751
00:28:59,990 --> 00:28:57,200
public's knowledge of what the average

752
00:29:02,950 --> 00:29:01,350
now i just wondered if i go through the

753
00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:02,960
list of members you'd be able to give me

754
00:29:07,029 --> 00:29:05,039
an indication or an idea of

755
00:29:08,789 --> 00:29:07,039
their relation to the ufo subject going

756
00:29:11,669 --> 00:29:08,799
into the the formation of the group in

757
00:29:13,029 --> 00:29:11,679
the 80s so so richard helms you know

758
00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:13,039
what was his

759
00:29:17,510 --> 00:29:15,440
interest or was he working within the

760
00:29:20,789 --> 00:29:17,520
you know the government on ufos before

761
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:23,590
richard helms was you know he came into

762
00:29:26,389 --> 00:29:25,440
the agency at the beginning of the

763
00:29:28,630 --> 00:29:26,399
creation

764
00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:28,640
of the central intelligence agency uh he

765
00:29:31,269 --> 00:29:29,360
was

766
00:29:33,350 --> 00:29:31,279
uh involved in uh

767
00:29:35,350 --> 00:29:33,360
army intelligence prior to that and the

768
00:29:36,630 --> 00:29:35,360
uh office of strategic

769
00:29:37,750 --> 00:29:36,640
intelligence

770
00:29:41,669 --> 00:29:37,760
um

771
00:29:44,950 --> 00:29:41,679
and uh he was a uh uh

772
00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:44,960
a station chief he he worked his way up

773
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:45,760
through

774
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:48,240
the cia

775
00:29:51,190 --> 00:29:49,440
he had

776
00:29:53,669 --> 00:29:51,200
been briefed on a couple of different

777
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:53,679
programs that the central intelligence

778
00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:54,960
agency had

779
00:29:59,430 --> 00:29:57,360
that were dealt with the ufos he didn't

780
00:30:00,870 --> 00:29:59,440
he didn't have full access he always

781
00:30:03,990 --> 00:30:00,880
told us he had

782
00:30:07,029 --> 00:30:04,000
he was 50 he was 50 50 meaning he had 50

783
00:30:08,789 --> 00:30:07,039
percent knowledge of the subject and 50

784
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:08,799
not

785
00:30:14,950 --> 00:30:11,120
information you wish he had so he was 50

786
00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:14,960
50. 50 and 50 out anyways uh eventually

787
00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:16,880
over the years uh

788
00:30:19,830 --> 00:30:18,960
he became more involved in a program but

789
00:30:23,029 --> 00:30:19,840
of course

790
00:30:23,909 --> 00:30:23,039
uh he got uh

791
00:30:26,549 --> 00:30:23,919
into

792
00:30:27,590 --> 00:30:26,559
the the dark side of the program so to

793
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:27,600
speak

794
00:30:32,549 --> 00:30:30,720
when um the agency was investigated in

795
00:30:34,470 --> 00:30:32,559
the four in the seventies

796
00:30:37,510 --> 00:30:34,480
um regarded uh

797
00:30:39,430 --> 00:30:37,520
in in regards to assassinations

798
00:30:40,789 --> 00:30:39,440
and so forth uh

799
00:30:42,789 --> 00:30:40,799
and um

800
00:30:43,909 --> 00:30:42,799
and then eventually he got out of the

801
00:30:45,909 --> 00:30:43,919
agency

802
00:30:48,830 --> 00:30:45,919
uh he retired

803
00:30:51,029 --> 00:30:48,840
but he uh maintained

804
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:51,039
contact and

805
00:30:54,230 --> 00:30:53,360
i don't exactly know who

806
00:30:57,190 --> 00:30:54,240
uh

807
00:30:58,549 --> 00:30:57,200
selected him as the leader of the aviary

808
00:30:59,909 --> 00:30:58,559
but

809
00:31:01,029 --> 00:30:59,919
when i

810
00:31:02,950 --> 00:31:01,039
was

811
00:31:05,909 --> 00:31:02,960
brought into it

812
00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:05,919
richard helms was was the uh

813
00:31:10,230 --> 00:31:07,440
the the uh

814
00:31:11,990 --> 00:31:10,240
leader of our of our group

815
00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:12,000
and then moving on

816
00:31:17,750 --> 00:31:14,320
he had he had knowledge of the subject

817
00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:17,760
in fact when we were when we were being

818
00:31:20,789 --> 00:31:19,760
briefed at these meetings

819
00:31:22,630 --> 00:31:20,799
he had

820
00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:22,640
intimate knowledge of of the subject

821
00:31:27,990 --> 00:31:26,080
matter so yeah he knew

822
00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:28,000
moving on to kit green what were you

823
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:30,840
aware of regarding ufos and kit green in

824
00:31:37,509 --> 00:31:34,960
1980 uh well first of all dr green and i

825
00:31:40,470 --> 00:31:37,519
worked on classified broker programs

826
00:31:41,669 --> 00:31:40,480
together i i know i knew kit for a good

827
00:31:43,750 --> 00:31:41,679
many years

828
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:43,760
uh dr green

829
00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:46,559
he was a doctor a medical doctor

830
00:31:51,029 --> 00:31:49,120
and he was involved with remote viewing

831
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:51,039
uh

832
00:31:57,269 --> 00:31:54,480
with dr put off back in the 70s

833
00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:57,279
and kit green had been briefed into the

834
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:58,240
program

835
00:32:01,430 --> 00:32:00,480
on the medical side of it medical

836
00:32:03,029 --> 00:32:01,440
knowledge

837
00:32:04,470 --> 00:32:03,039
so that was his connection to the

838
00:32:06,789 --> 00:32:04,480
average area

839
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:06,799
yeah and i suppose um moving on next

840
00:32:10,149 --> 00:32:08,880
would be well let's deal with hal put

841
00:32:12,070 --> 00:32:10,159
off then because you mentioned him there

842
00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:12,080
so i suppose is that a similar vein to

843
00:32:17,430 --> 00:32:13,600
kit green you know

844
00:32:19,029 --> 00:32:17,440
sri dia cia that kind of connection

845
00:32:21,669 --> 00:32:19,039
yes doctor

846
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:21,679
put off was a uh uh

847
00:32:26,830 --> 00:32:24,000
he was in a navy was a physicist in a

848
00:32:30,630 --> 00:32:26,840
navy worked on lasers way back in the

849
00:32:33,830 --> 00:32:30,640
60s uh he eventually went to samford uh

850
00:32:36,549 --> 00:32:33,840
got involved in sdi the remote viewing

851
00:32:38,310 --> 00:32:36,559
program on the scientific side of it not

852
00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:38,320
on the remote viewing side not a

853
00:32:44,950 --> 00:32:40,960
paranormal side of it um

854
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:44,960
and um he uh was one of the chiefs

855
00:32:50,230 --> 00:32:48,159
involved in the uh the

856
00:32:51,669 --> 00:32:50,240
setting up the remote viewing program

857
00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:51,679
for the military and for the

858
00:32:54,950 --> 00:32:53,360
intelligence community

859
00:32:58,389 --> 00:32:54,960
and so he

860
00:32:59,590 --> 00:32:58,399
uh had knowledge because of of

861
00:33:01,909 --> 00:32:59,600
his work

862
00:33:04,149 --> 00:33:01,919
uh both in the remote viewing

863
00:33:06,789 --> 00:33:04,159
the fact that

864
00:33:08,389 --> 00:33:06,799
they had remote viewers that were

865
00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:08,399
remote viewing

866
00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:10,960
the moon and mars and spaceships flying

867
00:33:15,590 --> 00:33:13,600
around earth so he had knowledge of that

868
00:33:16,789 --> 00:33:15,600
uh

869
00:33:19,669 --> 00:33:16,799
but i

870
00:33:21,269 --> 00:33:19,679
i didn't know everything that that dr

871
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:21,279
puthoff was working on back in those

872
00:33:24,870 --> 00:33:23,600
days but i knew he had knowledge of the

873
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:24,880
subject

874
00:33:27,830 --> 00:33:26,480
excellent i've just got a quick question

875
00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:27,840
here that's kind of relevant to what

876
00:33:31,750 --> 00:33:29,279
we're talking about with regards to kit

877
00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:31,760
green he stated he was shown an alien

878
00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:33,120
autopsy

879
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:38,399
within the intel circles at that time or

880
00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:39,760
around then

881
00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:45,990
there were real

882
00:33:50,549 --> 00:33:48,640
autopsies performed and and the

883
00:33:52,870 --> 00:33:50,559
um

884
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:52,880
the uh

885
00:33:56,870 --> 00:33:55,679
ets that were from the crap the dead ets

886
00:33:59,350 --> 00:33:56,880
from the crash

887
00:34:00,149 --> 00:33:59,360
and corona uh there were two autopsies

888
00:34:01,990 --> 00:34:00,159
done

889
00:34:03,990 --> 00:34:02,000
by the armed forces institute of

890
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:04,000
pathology on those

891
00:34:07,269 --> 00:34:05,200
beings

892
00:34:09,430 --> 00:34:07,279
and then there were other crashes

893
00:34:12,470 --> 00:34:09,440
where there were uh dead

894
00:34:14,629 --> 00:34:12,480
ets that uh that there were uh

895
00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:14,639
autopsies and every one of those were

896
00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:15,679
filmed

897
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:17,280
and um

898
00:34:21,829 --> 00:34:19,520
i you know you i i don't want to speak

899
00:34:24,069 --> 00:34:21,839
for dr greene i wasn't present when

900
00:34:26,710 --> 00:34:24,079
these and and i don't know exactly what

901
00:34:28,069 --> 00:34:26,720
he saw but i'm sure he had access to

902
00:34:29,430 --> 00:34:28,079
those

903
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:29,440
brilliant thank you

904
00:34:33,589 --> 00:34:31,679
um moving on what about bruce mcabee

905
00:34:35,270 --> 00:34:33,599
what was his connection to the ufo

906
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:35,280
subject

907
00:34:39,909 --> 00:34:37,440
bruce mcabee was a

908
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:39,919
optical scientist

909
00:34:45,109 --> 00:34:41,919
and

910
00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:47,190
his access was

911
00:34:52,710 --> 00:34:49,440
more in line with technology

912
00:34:54,069 --> 00:34:52,720
uh understanding that the technology

913
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:54,079
from uh

914
00:34:56,950 --> 00:34:54,960
uh

915
00:34:59,670 --> 00:34:56,960
extraterrestrial crafts

916
00:35:03,190 --> 00:34:59,680
that was his uh his knowledge

917
00:35:05,670 --> 00:35:03,200
brilliant uh ron pandolfie

918
00:35:07,349 --> 00:35:05,680
ryan pandorfi was within the central he

919
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:07,359
was a cia

920
00:35:10,470 --> 00:35:08,480
officer

921
00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:10,480
uh he was in a paranormal sat on a

922
00:35:15,030 --> 00:35:13,040
paranormal desk at the cia

923
00:35:17,510 --> 00:35:15,040
and so he had uh

924
00:35:19,510 --> 00:35:17,520
he certainly had knowledge of the of the

925
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:19,520
subject uh he had been briefed into the

926
00:35:22,950 --> 00:35:20,880
program

927
00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:22,960
and he had the uh

928
00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:24,560
he was more or less a representative

929
00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:25,280
some

930
00:35:30,630 --> 00:35:28,720
from the cia on the on the any group

931
00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:30,640
brilliant uh someone who i don't think

932
00:35:34,470 --> 00:35:32,160
many people might not have heard of is

933
00:35:37,990 --> 00:35:34,480
ernie callistrous

934
00:35:40,950 --> 00:35:38,000
ernie keller strauss was a uh

935
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:40,960
an air force uh scientist

936
00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:42,720
uh who

937
00:35:50,630 --> 00:35:47,910
knowledge about technical

938
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:50,640
uh uh projects that the government was

939
00:35:54,870 --> 00:35:52,160
working on

940
00:35:56,150 --> 00:35:54,880
in the reverse engineering program

941
00:35:58,950 --> 00:35:56,160
is it right am i right in saying that

942
00:36:01,349 --> 00:35:58,960
he'd examined ufo artifacts then in that

943
00:36:06,310 --> 00:36:01,359
program yes yes yes he did

944
00:36:12,790 --> 00:36:10,069
uh captain robert collins was a

945
00:36:13,910 --> 00:36:12,800
scientist air force scientist at the

946
00:36:16,150 --> 00:36:13,920
um

947
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:16,160
at wright patterson air force base and

948
00:36:20,550 --> 00:36:18,480
he had had access to

949
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:20,560
uh some of the artifacts that they had

950
00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:23,040
taken off et crafts

951
00:36:27,510 --> 00:36:24,640
that were that were being examined at

952
00:36:29,030 --> 00:36:27,520
the wright patterson uh

953
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:29,040
the institute for

954
00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:30,960
uh i think the air force

955
00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:34,079
uh institute of of uh technology and

956
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:35,680
that's where he was

957
00:36:41,589 --> 00:36:38,240
and that's where the uh the the some of

958
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:41,599
these items were taken and back in back

959
00:36:47,349 --> 00:36:44,560
in 40s uh the only

960
00:36:49,829 --> 00:36:47,359
the only place that that uh

961
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:49,839
would was dealing in the subject

962
00:36:54,069 --> 00:36:51,280
uh

963
00:36:55,030 --> 00:36:54,079
was at wright-patterson field a right

964
00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:55,040
field

965
00:36:56,790 --> 00:36:56,000
and

966
00:36:58,630 --> 00:36:56,800
so

967
00:37:00,470 --> 00:36:58,640
a lot of these uh

968
00:37:03,190 --> 00:37:00,480
artifacts were taken there now we had

969
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:03,200
los alamos national laboratories

970
00:37:06,870 --> 00:37:04,560
but they were more or less in the

971
00:37:10,230 --> 00:37:06,880
nuclear arena not in the technology

972
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:10,240
arena initially i think most

973
00:37:12,790 --> 00:37:11,920
uh don't quote me on this but i think

974
00:37:14,630 --> 00:37:12,800
most

975
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:14,640
of the the

976
00:37:19,349 --> 00:37:17,280
uh devices that we didn't understand was

977
00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:19,359
taken to wright patterson

978
00:37:23,430 --> 00:37:20,720
right lovely

979
00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:23,440
dan smith

980
00:37:35,990 --> 00:37:33,510
he was an in between a go-between he was

981
00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:36,000
somebody we used to get information from

982
00:37:39,750 --> 00:37:37,599
the outside

983
00:37:41,190 --> 00:37:39,760
and that's i'll just leave it at that

984
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:41,200
no problem am i right he's saying he was

985
00:37:45,589 --> 00:37:44,640
a civilian ufo researcher yes yes you're

986
00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:45,599
correct

987
00:37:55,270 --> 00:37:49,680
excellent um colonel john alexander

988
00:37:59,829 --> 00:37:58,390
united states army

989
00:38:01,670 --> 00:37:59,839
officer

990
00:38:04,710 --> 00:38:01,680
involved in

991
00:38:07,829 --> 00:38:04,720
highly classified projects

992
00:38:10,950 --> 00:38:07,839
both within the army's

993
00:38:12,150 --> 00:38:10,960
instituted advanced technology

994
00:38:13,750 --> 00:38:12,160
and at

995
00:38:15,109 --> 00:38:13,760
los alamos

996
00:38:16,790 --> 00:38:15,119
and so

997
00:38:19,750 --> 00:38:16,800
he was involved in a lot of different

998
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:19,760
aspects of the subject of ufos

999
00:38:23,829 --> 00:38:22,400
uh i'll just leave that that that

1000
00:38:26,870 --> 00:38:23,839
no problem and then finally i've got

1001
00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:26,880
commander cb scott jones

1002
00:38:30,870 --> 00:38:28,480
scott jones

1003
00:38:33,589 --> 00:38:30,880
was a reserve

1004
00:38:36,069 --> 00:38:33,599
united states navy commander

1005
00:38:38,950 --> 00:38:36,079
he was an aide to senator

1006
00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:38,960
uh claiborne pell

1007
00:38:42,150 --> 00:38:40,960
of rhode island

1008
00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:42,160
and

1009
00:38:44,710 --> 00:38:43,440
senator

1010
00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:44,720
pell

1011
00:38:49,670 --> 00:38:46,400
was the

1012
00:38:51,589 --> 00:38:49,680
was um our

1013
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:51,599
uh connection with

1014
00:38:54,490 --> 00:38:54,079
the united states senate

1015
00:38:55,589 --> 00:38:54,500
and

1016
00:38:57,270 --> 00:38:55,599
[Music]

1017
00:38:58,829 --> 00:38:57,280
funding

1018
00:39:01,910 --> 00:38:58,839
uh if we needed

1019
00:39:05,430 --> 00:39:01,920
something uh as far as money

1020
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:05,440
or are other things uh he could

1021
00:39:08,069 --> 00:39:06,720
um

1022
00:39:10,870 --> 00:39:08,079
satisfy us

1023
00:39:12,230 --> 00:39:10,880
satisfy our needs so to speak and and

1024
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:12,240
and

1025
00:39:16,230 --> 00:39:15,200
scott jones was uh senator pell's aide

1026
00:39:20,550 --> 00:39:16,240
chief

1027
00:39:23,510 --> 00:39:20,560
that's that's how uh

1028
00:39:24,470 --> 00:39:23,520
uh scott was involved in this

1029
00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:24,480
lovely

1030
00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:26,800
and am i right in saying that uh harry

1031
00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:29,280
reid was somehow

1032
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:30,960
in discussions with the group at some

1033
00:39:35,589 --> 00:39:32,640
point was there was a connection

1034
00:39:37,990 --> 00:39:35,599
somewhere with harry reid

1035
00:39:40,790 --> 00:39:38,000
harry reid didn't come in

1036
00:39:43,030 --> 00:39:40,800
to uh existence within the avery area

1037
00:39:46,069 --> 00:39:43,040
until the early 2000s

1038
00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:46,079
okay yeah but he uh

1039
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:47,760
back in the 80s

1040
00:39:53,270 --> 00:39:50,960
i'm not really sure i think he was a uh

1041
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:53,280
a lawyer in nevada at the time or in

1042
00:39:57,990 --> 00:39:55,440
washington d.c but no he wasn't involved

1043
00:40:00,390 --> 00:39:58,000
until later and but here he really was

1044
00:40:03,349 --> 00:40:00,400
the late harry reid he he was involved

1045
00:40:04,390 --> 00:40:03,359
in in the subject later on yes yes

1046
00:40:07,349 --> 00:40:04,400
now

1047
00:40:09,750 --> 00:40:07,359
let me uh let me say that that

1048
00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:09,760
the names that you gave me

1049
00:40:13,349 --> 00:40:11,680
are just a few the names are involved

1050
00:40:14,710 --> 00:40:13,359
there's many others

1051
00:40:17,030 --> 00:40:14,720
that are involved

1052
00:40:18,150 --> 00:40:17,040
that that you don't have names to

1053
00:40:19,030 --> 00:40:18,160
and uh

1054
00:40:19,829 --> 00:40:19,040
and so

1055
00:40:22,309 --> 00:40:19,839
uh

1056
00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:22,319
and some of some of the other people

1057
00:40:26,790 --> 00:40:25,040
are were um

1058
00:40:28,790 --> 00:40:26,800
uh temporary

1059
00:40:30,309 --> 00:40:28,800
members in fact they came in for a

1060
00:40:31,829 --> 00:40:30,319
particular reason

1061
00:40:33,589 --> 00:40:31,839
and then got out

1062
00:40:34,710 --> 00:40:33,599
uh

1063
00:40:36,829 --> 00:40:34,720
so there were

1064
00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:36,839
18 total

1065
00:40:42,470 --> 00:40:40,560
um that we had we had uh brought in and

1066
00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:42,480
out of the group over the years

1067
00:40:46,069 --> 00:40:43,760
are you able to give us any of those

1068
00:40:47,270 --> 00:40:46,079
names that i haven't said no i'm

1069
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:47,280
um

1070
00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:49,040
and there's a reason uh

1071
00:40:53,750 --> 00:40:51,200
some of them are still involved

1072
00:40:55,510 --> 00:40:53,760
okay and and and eight let me let me

1073
00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:55,520
just say this and this is about all i

1074
00:41:00,630 --> 00:40:56,800
can say about it

1075
00:41:05,349 --> 00:41:02,710
still interesting not necessarily with

1076
00:41:07,750 --> 00:41:05,359
the same people okay

1077
00:41:09,750 --> 00:41:07,760
because obviously some of them have died

1078
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:09,760
over the years and so forth and this is

1079
00:41:14,309 --> 00:41:11,920
sanctioned by the government or within

1080
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:14,319
military or the intelligence community

1081
00:41:18,390 --> 00:41:15,599
within i would say within the

1082
00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:18,400
intelligence community

1083
00:41:22,550 --> 00:41:20,640
interesting very interesting

1084
00:41:24,150 --> 00:41:22,560
um i'm just going to bring this question

1085
00:41:26,630 --> 00:41:24,160
up here from sean so what stopped the

1086
00:41:29,670 --> 00:41:26,640
avery group from disclosing as that was

1087
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:30,710
well

1088
00:41:36,950 --> 00:41:34,400
it was a complicated process

1089
00:41:39,829 --> 00:41:36,960
we had to

1090
00:41:41,349 --> 00:41:39,839
plan

1091
00:41:42,950 --> 00:41:41,359
i mean everything within government is

1092
00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:42,960
done by a plan

1093
00:41:48,390 --> 00:41:45,359
i mean you had to do a written plan

1094
00:41:51,030 --> 00:41:48,400
and we did we had a very very i thought

1095
00:41:54,630 --> 00:41:51,040
and i was a neil i was just a young guy

1096
00:41:58,150 --> 00:41:54,640
you know i was you know 27 28 years old

1097
00:42:00,790 --> 00:41:58,160
uh i i i wasn't the senior person

1098
00:42:03,030 --> 00:42:00,800
obviously i was a very low person in

1099
00:42:06,069 --> 00:42:03,040
that group but i had

1100
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:06,079
jobs and things i had to do and i did it

1101
00:42:17,670 --> 00:42:06,960
a

1102
00:42:18,550 --> 00:42:17,680
should proceed with disclosure

1103
00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:18,560
and

1104
00:42:22,230 --> 00:42:19,599
but

1105
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:22,240
it was so complicated that you had to

1106
00:42:24,390 --> 00:42:22,960
get

1107
00:42:25,670 --> 00:42:24,400
so many different

1108
00:42:27,349 --> 00:42:25,680
agencies

1109
00:42:28,390 --> 00:42:27,359
to agree to it

1110
00:42:31,430 --> 00:42:28,400
now

1111
00:42:34,630 --> 00:42:31,440
you understand from 1947

1112
00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:34,640
uh when when the roswell craft crashed

1113
00:42:41,829 --> 00:42:38,800
in 1947 the second craft in 1949

1114
00:42:43,030 --> 00:42:41,839
but 1947 we didn't have an air force

1115
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:43,040
we had and we didn't have an

1116
00:42:48,790 --> 00:42:45,599
intelligence community didn't have a cia

1117
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:48,800
we had the uh the army air force

1118
00:42:55,270 --> 00:42:52,640
uh we had still had uh the army actually

1119
00:42:58,870 --> 00:42:55,280
took over the oss so their intelligence

1120
00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:58,880
uh was coming from the from the army uh

1121
00:43:02,870 --> 00:43:00,720
the national security act was passed in

1122
00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:02,880
september of 1947

1123
00:43:06,230 --> 00:43:04,400
the creation of the united states air

1124
00:43:09,030 --> 00:43:06,240
force and the central intelligence

1125
00:43:11,670 --> 00:43:09,040
agency but the solitude cia never

1126
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:11,680
actually got off the ground until 51 i

1127
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:13,119
mean it took some years to form it and

1128
00:43:15,589 --> 00:43:14,400
so forth

1129
00:43:17,589 --> 00:43:15,599
so

1130
00:43:21,270 --> 00:43:17,599
we had

1131
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:21,280
some some older

1132
00:43:27,750 --> 00:43:24,960
operational plans that were in place

1133
00:43:28,950 --> 00:43:27,760
after the roswell craft crashed

1134
00:43:32,550 --> 00:43:28,960
and then

1135
00:43:35,270 --> 00:43:32,560
in 1960 the dia came into existence the

1136
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:35,280
defense intelligence agency

1137
00:43:39,990 --> 00:43:38,160
and and and and and just bear with me on

1138
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:40,000
this okay i'm giving some historical

1139
00:43:44,150 --> 00:43:41,040
baby

1140
00:43:45,829 --> 00:43:44,160
in 1969 the united states air force

1141
00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:45,839
wanted to get out of it

1142
00:43:50,630 --> 00:43:47,599
the air force says listen we don't want

1143
00:43:53,349 --> 00:43:50,640
this program we the ufo the project blue

1144
00:43:54,550 --> 00:43:53,359
book project grudge project sign the air

1145
00:43:56,630 --> 00:43:54,560
force ad

1146
00:43:57,349 --> 00:43:56,640
we we wanted to get out of it

1147
00:43:58,710 --> 00:43:57,359
so

1148
00:44:01,109 --> 00:43:58,720
they uh

1149
00:44:02,470 --> 00:44:01,119
created this condom report

1150
00:44:04,069 --> 00:44:02,480
and it was actually written by the air

1151
00:44:05,349 --> 00:44:04,079
force i think most people any kind of

1152
00:44:07,510 --> 00:44:05,359
common sense

1153
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:07,520
can can figure it out that it wasn't

1154
00:44:12,550 --> 00:44:09,040
done by condom

1155
00:44:15,030 --> 00:44:12,560
it was his name stuck to the report

1156
00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:15,040
the air force wrote it to get out of it

1157
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:16,960
but the air force had to find some

1158
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:19,200
agency to take it over

1159
00:44:24,309 --> 00:44:21,040
the dia

1160
00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:24,319
relatively new agency 10 years old or 9

1161
00:44:27,829 --> 00:44:25,440
years old

1162
00:44:29,829 --> 00:44:27,839
raised her hand and said we'll take it

1163
00:44:33,430 --> 00:44:29,839
we got to have something to do so

1164
00:44:34,710 --> 00:44:33,440
all this was given over to the dia

1165
00:44:36,470 --> 00:44:34,720
now

1166
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:36,480
if it would have stayed in the dia

1167
00:44:39,990 --> 00:44:38,319
during that time period

1168
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:40,000
um i think we could have had a

1169
00:44:44,230 --> 00:44:41,520
disclosure

1170
00:44:46,069 --> 00:44:44,240
but what happened was the navy became

1171
00:44:48,790 --> 00:44:46,079
involved in this office of naval

1172
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:48,800
intelligence

1173
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:50,400
then the the

1174
00:44:52,710 --> 00:44:51,760
o and i

1175
00:44:53,990 --> 00:44:52,720
uh

1176
00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:54,000
were collected was collecting

1177
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:56,880
information about the subject of ufos

1178
00:45:00,710 --> 00:44:58,240
incidents

1179
00:45:03,109 --> 00:45:00,720
uh involving navy just the navy and

1180
00:45:04,950 --> 00:45:03,119
never sharing it with the dia keeping it

1181
00:45:07,190 --> 00:45:04,960
in-house

1182
00:45:09,510 --> 00:45:07,200
and of course the air force

1183
00:45:11,030 --> 00:45:09,520
1971 decided

1184
00:45:13,430 --> 00:45:11,040
you know this could be a threat to

1185
00:45:15,190 --> 00:45:13,440
national security so we have to keep

1186
00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:15,200
involved in this

1187
00:45:18,069 --> 00:45:17,040
so now the air force is involved in it

1188
00:45:20,069 --> 00:45:18,079
and they're not sharing their

1189
00:45:21,430 --> 00:45:20,079
information with the dia

1190
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:21,440
so now you got all these different

1191
00:45:25,670 --> 00:45:23,520
agencies involved in this

1192
00:45:26,510 --> 00:45:25,680
and now when we become

1193
00:45:30,870 --> 00:45:26,520
a

1194
00:45:35,109 --> 00:45:30,880
disclosure

1195
00:45:39,910 --> 00:45:37,030
coordinate all this with all these

1196
00:45:43,829 --> 00:45:39,920
different agencies now

1197
00:45:46,550 --> 00:45:43,839
again in 1980 time period we had the

1198
00:45:48,470 --> 00:45:46,560
national reconnaissance office nro

1199
00:45:51,030 --> 00:45:48,480
they're involved in it

1200
00:45:53,430 --> 00:45:51,040
they're not sharing with anybody but

1201
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:53,440
certain members of the air force

1202
00:45:56,870 --> 00:45:54,640
because they're getting their funding

1203
00:46:01,510 --> 00:45:56,880
directly from the air force

1204
00:46:08,390 --> 00:46:03,990
description of it and that's why we were

1205
00:46:13,430 --> 00:46:10,790
be able to implement our

1206
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:13,440
program or operational plan for

1207
00:46:16,950 --> 00:46:14,480
disclosure

1208
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:16,960
and another problem we had

1209
00:46:23,670 --> 00:46:21,040
what how much disclosure could we give

1210
00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:23,680
now are we going to give everything to

1211
00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:25,839
the american public no we can't we're

1212
00:46:30,710 --> 00:46:28,720
not going to give technical information

1213
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:30,720
you know all the all the neat things

1214
00:46:33,270 --> 00:46:31,680
that we

1215
00:46:34,550 --> 00:46:33,280
um

1216
00:46:36,470 --> 00:46:34,560
found out

1217
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:36,480
in reverse engineering

1218
00:46:40,309 --> 00:46:38,160
we don't want the russians or the

1219
00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:40,319
soviets back in those days or the red

1220
00:46:45,589 --> 00:46:43,440
chinese or any other hostile

1221
00:46:48,150 --> 00:46:45,599
intelligence or governments

1222
00:46:50,950 --> 00:46:48,160
to know about what we know about or what

1223
00:46:53,510 --> 00:46:50,960
we found out so we couldn't tell them

1224
00:46:56,870 --> 00:46:53,520
anything technical

1225
00:46:59,510 --> 00:46:56,880
what about the religious aspect of it

1226
00:47:01,910 --> 00:46:59,520
i think that scared everybody the most

1227
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:01,920
what if we said okay you know yeah

1228
00:47:07,670 --> 00:47:05,359
something came here uh in 1947 and we

1229
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:07,680
had a live alien and he told us that

1230
00:47:13,589 --> 00:47:10,480
he'd been visiting earth for 2000 years

1231
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:13,599
and he was here 2 000 years ago

1232
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:15,680
what's the immediately thought

1233
00:47:20,150 --> 00:47:17,520
the thinking process of somebody that's

1234
00:47:22,069 --> 00:47:20,160
religious religious oh my god

1235
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:22,079
did the did the alien

1236
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:24,480
jesus on earth

1237
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:25,680
so

1238
00:47:32,230 --> 00:47:29,920
that that uh plant played into our our

1239
00:47:34,630 --> 00:47:32,240
problem with disclosure

1240
00:47:37,349 --> 00:47:34,640
not fair enough um great question here

1241
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:37,359
by jay allen which is also on my list is

1242
00:47:42,309 --> 00:47:39,440
um what are your thoughts on bob lazar's

1243
00:47:45,430 --> 00:47:43,190
well

1244
00:47:48,069 --> 00:47:45,440
i was at area 51 i was a

1245
00:47:49,750 --> 00:47:48,079
counterintelligence officer i think it's

1246
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:49,760
you know there's there's smarter people

1247
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:52,000
out there figure that out uh even phil

1248
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:52,880
class

1249
00:47:57,109 --> 00:47:55,280
uh got some records anyways i was i was

1250
00:48:01,589 --> 00:47:57,119
kind of intelligence officer out there

1251
00:48:03,589 --> 00:48:01,599
i knew about s2 not as four

1252
00:48:07,990 --> 00:48:03,599
the problem with uh

1253
00:48:09,349 --> 00:48:08,000
bob lazar's story is that s4

1254
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:09,359
was under

1255
00:48:14,309 --> 00:48:11,760
was a fourth level under s2

1256
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:14,319
the complex is called s2

1257
00:48:22,150 --> 00:48:19,510
and

1258
00:48:25,190 --> 00:48:22,160
s4 was a fourth level

1259
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:25,200
uh i was at s2 a number of times

1260
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:27,839
uh that's administrative control

1261
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:31,040
uh operations for at the the lower

1262
00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:34,640
levels i was never at as four never was

1263
00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:36,800
down to that's four never saw what was

1264
00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:38,400
down in s4 i just didn't have a

1265
00:48:48,069 --> 00:48:45,190
when bob store bob

1266
00:48:50,230 --> 00:48:48,079
lazar's story came out in 1969

1267
00:48:51,270 --> 00:48:50,240
at 56 89

1268
00:48:53,109 --> 00:48:51,280
um

1269
00:48:55,349 --> 00:48:53,119
i checked with one of the

1270
00:48:57,750 --> 00:48:55,359
chief of securities out there who was

1271
00:49:00,069 --> 00:48:57,760
very very very close to me i mean i i

1272
00:49:02,390 --> 00:49:00,079
just left the intelligence community

1273
00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:02,400
and and he checked and yeah bob lazar

1274
00:49:06,950 --> 00:49:04,160
did work out there

1275
00:49:09,510 --> 00:49:06,960
i think it was only for 96 days or

1276
00:49:11,109 --> 00:49:09,520
95 something like that 98 days or

1277
00:49:12,549 --> 00:49:11,119
something that something like that he

1278
00:49:15,270 --> 00:49:12,559
did work out there

1279
00:49:16,710 --> 00:49:15,280
i did that after he did have access to

1280
00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:16,720
s4

1281
00:49:20,309 --> 00:49:18,240
but that's the only thing i can say i

1282
00:49:24,549 --> 00:49:20,319
don't know anything else about what he

1283
00:49:26,069 --> 00:49:24,559
saw uh or what he did down there

1284
00:49:27,670 --> 00:49:26,079
that's great thank you

1285
00:49:29,589 --> 00:49:27,680
um i'm just going to move on to a few

1286
00:49:31,589 --> 00:49:29,599
questions i've got here from uh sent in

1287
00:49:33,990 --> 00:49:31,599
by different followers on social media

1288
00:49:36,549 --> 00:49:34,000
so first of all your name asks why has

1289
00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:36,559
the military or whoever did

1290
00:49:41,910 --> 00:49:38,640
fake alien abductions what was the point

1291
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,950
uh

1292
00:49:50,870 --> 00:49:48,390
probably my weakest area um

1293
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:50,880
is abductions i know

1294
00:49:55,030 --> 00:49:53,520
we investigated him i investigated some

1295
00:49:56,470 --> 00:49:55,040
abductions

1296
00:49:59,829 --> 00:49:56,480
um

1297
00:50:02,150 --> 00:49:59,839
i don't know about any actual

1298
00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:02,160
united states government abductions

1299
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:05,280
so no my labs or anything like that

1300
00:50:13,270 --> 00:50:10,470
there were there

1301
00:50:14,470 --> 00:50:13,280
let me say this there were

1302
00:50:17,670 --> 00:50:14,480
some

1303
00:50:21,349 --> 00:50:20,549
operations that occurred

1304
00:50:23,670 --> 00:50:21,359
to

1305
00:50:25,670 --> 00:50:23,680
protect

1306
00:50:28,230 --> 00:50:25,680
other projects

1307
00:50:29,910 --> 00:50:28,240
we have and i'll give you example okay

1308
00:50:31,270 --> 00:50:29,920
there was an air force

1309
00:50:34,150 --> 00:50:31,280
uh

1310
00:50:37,030 --> 00:50:35,270
who

1311
00:50:38,630 --> 00:50:37,040
had access to a

1312
00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:38,640
program

1313
00:50:43,990 --> 00:50:42,240
and uh highly classified

1314
00:50:45,829 --> 00:50:44,000
and he started

1315
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:45,839
to uh

1316
00:50:50,069 --> 00:50:48,480
disclose it to somebody that shouldn't

1317
00:50:51,589 --> 00:50:50,079
know about it

1318
00:50:53,270 --> 00:50:51,599
so we

1319
00:50:55,430 --> 00:50:53,280
faked

1320
00:50:57,750 --> 00:50:55,440
an abduction

1321
00:50:59,990 --> 00:50:57,760
of the person that he was

1322
00:51:00,790 --> 00:51:00,000
uh giving the information to

1323
00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:00,800
to

1324
00:51:06,790 --> 00:51:04,960
throw her it was a female throw her off

1325
00:51:10,069 --> 00:51:06,800
that's the only

1326
00:51:13,030 --> 00:51:10,079
uh

1327
00:51:14,630 --> 00:51:13,040
fake abduction that i ever knew about

1328
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:14,640
within the within

1329
00:51:17,430 --> 00:51:16,480
the government now there may have been

1330
00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:17,440
others

1331
00:51:20,549 --> 00:51:18,800
you gotta understand there's other

1332
00:51:21,510 --> 00:51:20,559
agencies working this

1333
00:51:23,670 --> 00:51:21,520
the

1334
00:51:25,910 --> 00:51:23,680
second air intelligence squadron

1335
00:51:27,030 --> 00:51:25,920
at the wright-patterson area at the fort

1336
00:51:28,549 --> 00:51:27,040
belvoir

1337
00:51:29,430 --> 00:51:28,559
virginia

1338
00:51:30,870 --> 00:51:29,440
uh

1339
00:51:31,829 --> 00:51:30,880
the real

1340
00:51:33,109 --> 00:51:31,839
real

1341
00:51:35,430 --> 00:51:33,119
men in black

1342
00:51:36,790 --> 00:51:35,440
did some things that i never had access

1343
00:51:39,030 --> 00:51:36,800
to so

1344
00:51:41,829 --> 00:51:39,040
it could have happened but i only knew

1345
00:51:43,829 --> 00:51:41,839
one instance and i told you that

1346
00:51:45,829 --> 00:51:43,839
great thank you very much um it's a

1347
00:51:47,349 --> 00:51:45,839
question from dave partridge on fade to

1348
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:47,359
black a couple of years ago you

1349
00:51:51,349 --> 00:51:48,960
mentioned that there were two

1350
00:51:53,589 --> 00:51:51,359
disinformation agents that you knew of

1351
00:51:55,430 --> 00:51:53,599
active within the ufo community

1352
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:55,440
one that's been around for years and one

1353
00:52:01,190 --> 00:51:57,760
younger in comparison are you able to

1354
00:52:03,109 --> 00:52:01,200
disclose who they were or are

1355
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:03,119
no i think they did i think they

1356
00:52:07,510 --> 00:52:04,640
disclosed themselves

1357
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:07,520
yeah ufo convention some years ago uh

1358
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:09,839
one particular one sat in a room and

1359
00:52:14,150 --> 00:52:12,640
said that he had been uh um

1360
00:52:15,829 --> 00:52:14,160
co-opted by

1361
00:52:19,349 --> 00:52:15,839
a particular

1362
00:52:20,950 --> 00:52:19,359
person uh intelligence officer not me he

1363
00:52:21,829 --> 00:52:20,960
named it he named that intelligence

1364
00:52:23,190 --> 00:52:21,839
officer

1365
00:52:25,349 --> 00:52:23,200
and uh

1366
00:52:27,750 --> 00:52:25,359
uh well the other one i think everybody

1367
00:52:29,589 --> 00:52:27,760
knows bill moore i mean right okay yeah

1368
00:52:32,470 --> 00:52:29,599
bill moore was the other one

1369
00:52:34,470 --> 00:52:32,480
so the the the younger one uh

1370
00:52:36,470 --> 00:52:34,480
you know i'm not go if he wants he'd

1371
00:52:37,990 --> 00:52:36,480
already disclosed his name uh

1372
00:52:39,589 --> 00:52:38,000
i can't remember what ufo convention

1373
00:52:40,870 --> 00:52:39,599
that was 20

1374
00:52:43,349 --> 00:52:40,880
uh

1375
00:52:45,109 --> 00:52:43,359
oh six or seven sometime in there and

1376
00:52:46,950 --> 00:52:45,119
then of course bill moore we don't no

1377
00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:46,960
more we know bill moore was the other

1378
00:52:49,829 --> 00:52:48,400
one of the others

1379
00:52:53,589 --> 00:52:49,839
okay that's great no that's something we

1380
00:52:55,190 --> 00:52:53,599
can look into appreciate it um

1381
00:52:56,710 --> 00:52:55,200
did you play this is from uh matthew

1382
00:52:58,470 --> 00:52:56,720
wilson did you play any part in the

1383
00:53:01,750 --> 00:52:58,480
creation or dissemination of any

1384
00:53:03,109 --> 00:53:01,760
materials related to majestic 12.

1385
00:53:07,710 --> 00:53:03,119
no

1386
00:53:10,390 --> 00:53:07,720
i think i was clear to that in 1960 in

1387
00:53:13,349 --> 00:53:10,400
1987 and 89

1388
00:53:14,069 --> 00:53:13,359
uh fbi investigated it

1389
00:53:20,870 --> 00:53:14,079
and

1390
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:23,589
contained about um

1391
00:53:28,710 --> 00:53:26,800
seventy percent step factual information

1392
00:53:31,910 --> 00:53:28,720
in the other 30 percent

1393
00:53:33,589 --> 00:53:31,920
uh well i shouldn't say 30. 20 was maybe

1394
00:53:36,309 --> 00:53:33,599
speculation in 10

1395
00:53:38,069 --> 00:53:36,319
was outright uh lies

1396
00:53:40,390 --> 00:53:38,079
false information

1397
00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:40,400
but it wasn't it was created by the

1398
00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:43,040
government uh i think

1399
00:53:46,230 --> 00:53:44,400
you know this has been out there a long

1400
00:53:48,150 --> 00:53:46,240
time people don't want to believe it

1401
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:48,160
people want to believe that the mj-12

1402
00:53:55,910 --> 00:53:51,920
document was created by me or bill moore

1403
00:53:58,230 --> 00:53:55,920
or jamie shandera or carl dale i mean

1404
00:54:01,109 --> 00:53:58,240
all these names were involved in in

1405
00:54:03,030 --> 00:54:01,119
creating these documents uh and none of

1406
00:54:05,349 --> 00:54:03,040
it's factual you know they write a book

1407
00:54:07,349 --> 00:54:05,359
and it has to sound good so they throw

1408
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:07,359
my name in there and others

1409
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:09,760
but the the the documents were created

1410
00:54:12,150 --> 00:54:11,200
for a reason

1411
00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:12,160
and

1412
00:54:16,230 --> 00:54:15,280
uh it wasn't you know i was not involved

1413
00:54:17,990 --> 00:54:16,240
in that

1414
00:54:19,829 --> 00:54:18,000
there were hundreds and hundreds of

1415
00:54:21,829 --> 00:54:19,839
other people involved

1416
00:54:23,109 --> 00:54:21,839
in this program

1417
00:54:24,790 --> 00:54:23,119
besides me

1418
00:54:27,349 --> 00:54:24,800
and so other people

1419
00:54:29,510 --> 00:54:27,359
and and the agency the the entity that

1420
00:54:30,950 --> 00:54:29,520
created that document i think

1421
00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:30,960
wendell stevens

1422
00:54:33,829 --> 00:54:31,680
and

1423
00:54:36,630 --> 00:54:33,839
most people know who wendell stevens is

1424
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:36,640
he had some really neat documents

1425
00:54:41,910 --> 00:54:39,359
that uh suggested this the uh the

1426
00:54:43,589 --> 00:54:41,920
defense intelligence agency special

1427
00:54:46,470 --> 00:54:43,599
means committee

1428
00:54:47,349 --> 00:54:46,480
uh actually created that document

1429
00:54:49,670 --> 00:54:47,359
so

1430
00:54:51,430 --> 00:54:49,680
uh you know that's

1431
00:54:52,870 --> 00:54:51,440
that's the truth

1432
00:54:54,230 --> 00:54:52,880
and you want to believe it you believe

1433
00:54:55,589 --> 00:54:54,240
it you don't believe it you don't have

1434
00:54:56,870 --> 00:54:55,599
to believe it

1435
00:54:59,349 --> 00:54:56,880
no fair enough

1436
00:55:01,430 --> 00:54:59,359
um a question from j alan here uh is

1437
00:55:03,589 --> 00:55:01,440
there an influence operation men in

1438
00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:03,599
black to keep people quiet is this a

1439
00:55:10,549 --> 00:55:06,960
shadow game parallel to an actual alien

1440
00:55:15,430 --> 00:55:12,630
well

1441
00:55:16,950 --> 00:55:15,440
there's an nd called uh or there's a

1442
00:55:18,630 --> 00:55:16,960
organization

1443
00:55:19,589 --> 00:55:18,640
back in those days called

1444
00:55:22,870 --> 00:55:19,599
the

1445
00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:24,789
wing

1446
00:55:31,910 --> 00:55:28,160
detachment 22

1447
00:55:35,030 --> 00:55:31,920
contained

1448
00:55:36,549 --> 00:55:35,040
some very strange people

1449
00:55:37,750 --> 00:55:36,559
they were uh

1450
00:55:39,109 --> 00:55:37,760
people that could speak different

1451
00:55:41,109 --> 00:55:39,119
languages

1452
00:55:42,230 --> 00:55:41,119
uh they're people that looked

1453
00:55:44,630 --> 00:55:42,240
differently

1454
00:55:46,789 --> 00:55:44,640
had different facial appearances some

1455
00:55:49,109 --> 00:55:46,799
say they had plastic surgery i don't

1456
00:55:53,430 --> 00:55:49,119
know about that i've never heard that

1457
00:55:55,829 --> 00:55:53,440
anybody had purposely had their face uh

1458
00:55:58,950 --> 00:55:55,839
manipulated in a way but

1459
00:56:00,150 --> 00:55:58,960
and some of them were ex safe crackers

1460
00:56:02,710 --> 00:56:00,160
actors

1461
00:56:04,870 --> 00:56:02,720
actresses there's men women

1462
00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:04,880
uh there's all different races involved

1463
00:56:11,829 --> 00:56:09,040
in this uh african-americans uh hispanic

1464
00:56:15,190 --> 00:56:11,839
and they're assigned to this particular

1465
00:56:17,030 --> 00:56:15,200
detachment and their job is to collect

1466
00:56:22,870 --> 00:56:17,040
intelligence

1467
00:56:25,109 --> 00:56:22,880
and one one of their jobs is

1468
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:25,119
the men in black stories

1469
00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:27,200
i know i met him i met some of these

1470
00:56:33,030 --> 00:56:28,079
people

1471
00:56:35,990 --> 00:56:33,040
uh they uh visited witnesses after i did

1472
00:56:37,829 --> 00:56:36,000
uh so yes the government does have

1473
00:56:40,710 --> 00:56:37,839
people they don't call themselves men in

1474
00:56:43,349 --> 00:56:40,720
black but uh they're out there for a

1475
00:56:44,470 --> 00:56:43,359
particular reason most uh most of of

1476
00:56:46,789 --> 00:56:44,480
what they do

1477
00:56:48,710 --> 00:56:46,799
are really highly classified

1478
00:56:51,349 --> 00:56:48,720
super secret stuff

1479
00:56:52,870 --> 00:56:51,359
that they penetrate foreign governments

1480
00:56:55,910 --> 00:56:52,880
and it doesn't always it doesn't

1481
00:56:57,190 --> 00:56:55,920
necessarily pertain to ufos any kind of

1482
00:57:00,710 --> 00:56:57,200
intelligence

1483
00:57:01,670 --> 00:57:00,720
uh but but there is a there is a uh

1484
00:57:05,510 --> 00:57:01,680
uh a

1485
00:57:07,510 --> 00:57:05,520
a an organization that uh people could

1486
00:57:09,829 --> 00:57:07,520
could go back and claim to be

1487
00:57:11,349 --> 00:57:09,839
the men in black the the real men in

1488
00:57:12,390 --> 00:57:11,359
black

1489
00:57:14,069 --> 00:57:12,400
yeah great

1490
00:57:16,470 --> 00:57:14,079
um the next question i've actually got a

1491
00:57:18,069 --> 00:57:16,480
few times was regarding some documents

1492
00:57:19,670 --> 00:57:18,079
that you showed to linda mullen how now

1493
00:57:22,789 --> 00:57:19,680
i'm assuming it's to do with dna

1494
00:57:25,270 --> 00:57:22,799
manipulation it's manipulated 65 times

1495
00:57:27,190 --> 00:57:25,280
in order to create homo sapiens sapiens

1496
00:57:28,309 --> 00:57:27,200
is that were they true documents was

1497
00:57:30,630 --> 00:57:28,319
that

1498
00:57:32,870 --> 00:57:30,640
not true was it this information like

1499
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:32,880
can you tell us about those documents

1500
00:57:35,990 --> 00:57:35,040
the linda howell

1501
00:57:37,430 --> 00:57:36,000
case

1502
00:57:42,069 --> 00:57:37,440
uh

1503
00:57:43,270 --> 00:57:42,079
i was given a task now everything i did

1504
00:57:45,349 --> 00:57:43,280
was sanctioned by the government

1505
00:57:47,190 --> 00:57:45,359
obviously or i would you know be in jail

1506
00:57:49,910 --> 00:57:47,200
someplace uh

1507
00:57:51,510 --> 00:57:49,920
i was at i was tasked with contacting

1508
00:57:52,829 --> 00:57:51,520
linda howell

1509
00:57:54,390 --> 00:57:52,839
uh

1510
00:57:56,710 --> 00:57:54,400
because

1511
00:57:57,589 --> 00:57:56,720
she was a really good researcher and she

1512
00:57:59,829 --> 00:57:57,599
had

1513
00:58:01,829 --> 00:57:59,839
contacts within

1514
00:58:02,789 --> 00:58:01,839
the government that we were worried

1515
00:58:05,750 --> 00:58:02,799
about

1516
00:58:07,190 --> 00:58:05,760
and my job was to meet up with her

1517
00:58:08,950 --> 00:58:07,200
get to know her

1518
00:58:10,390 --> 00:58:08,960
try to recruit her

1519
00:58:13,270 --> 00:58:10,400
number one

1520
00:58:14,549 --> 00:58:13,280
and then try to find out who her sources

1521
00:58:16,870 --> 00:58:14,559
were

1522
00:58:19,750 --> 00:58:16,880
within washington dc

1523
00:58:20,950 --> 00:58:19,760
so i contacted her i brought her out to

1524
00:58:23,109 --> 00:58:20,960
the base

1525
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:23,119
i brought her into a very very secure

1526
00:58:26,630 --> 00:58:24,480
area

1527
00:58:28,549 --> 00:58:26,640
i set her in a particular location where

1528
00:58:29,829 --> 00:58:28,559
she could be filmed through a one-way

1529
00:58:31,270 --> 00:58:29,839
mirror she

1530
00:58:33,349 --> 00:58:31,280
she describes us

1531
00:58:35,030 --> 00:58:33,359
probably better than i do and i showed

1532
00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:35,040
her some documents

1533
00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:36,720
that i had gotten

1534
00:58:41,430 --> 00:58:38,720
that morning

1535
00:58:43,190 --> 00:58:41,440
from an armed forces courier

1536
00:58:46,069 --> 00:58:43,200
a highly classified document armed

1537
00:58:48,230 --> 00:58:46,079
forces carrier service only transports

1538
00:58:49,430 --> 00:58:48,240
highly classified has to be above top

1539
00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:49,440
secret above

1540
00:58:53,109 --> 00:58:50,640
uh

1541
00:58:55,190 --> 00:58:53,119
i got it in my office

1542
00:58:57,510 --> 00:58:55,200
i looked it i opened it with my

1543
00:58:59,109 --> 00:58:57,520
supervisor present because we both had

1544
00:59:02,069 --> 00:58:59,119
to sign

1545
00:59:03,430 --> 00:59:02,079
and i was to show her those documents so

1546
00:59:06,549 --> 00:59:03,440
and i did that

1547
00:59:09,430 --> 00:59:06,559
she came in she sat down everything was

1548
00:59:11,589 --> 00:59:09,440
recorded i had other people looking in i

1549
00:59:13,750 --> 00:59:11,599
gave her the document i said you can you

1550
00:59:16,150 --> 00:59:13,760
can look at this document you can read

1551
00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:16,160
this document you can't take notes you

1552
00:59:21,270 --> 00:59:18,480
can't photograph as soon as you're done

1553
00:59:25,030 --> 00:59:21,280
reading it it goes back into the safe

1554
00:59:27,670 --> 00:59:25,040
folder the safe folder is a as a as a

1555
00:59:30,390 --> 00:59:27,680
safe a folder that will uh

1556
00:59:32,150 --> 00:59:30,400
that you put a document in and if you

1557
00:59:34,470 --> 00:59:32,160
you close it in a certain way if you try

1558
00:59:35,990 --> 00:59:34,480
to open it in a certain way the small

1559
00:59:39,270 --> 00:59:36,000
thermite uh

1560
00:59:41,750 --> 00:59:39,280
uh strips that burns the document so uh

1561
00:59:44,150 --> 00:59:41,760
and i had to send it back

1562
00:59:47,349 --> 00:59:44,160
so what she read

1563
00:59:48,710 --> 00:59:47,359
was what i was talk what i was given to

1564
00:59:49,829 --> 00:59:48,720
tell her to read

1565
00:59:51,829 --> 00:59:49,839
showed her

1566
00:59:53,910 --> 00:59:51,839
so now you're asking me is everything in

1567
00:59:55,589 --> 00:59:53,920
that document real

1568
00:59:57,270 --> 00:59:55,599
you'd have to go back and ask government

1569
01:00:00,710 --> 00:59:57,280
that because

1570
01:00:02,789 --> 01:00:00,720
i don't know i i i read it it was a

1571
01:00:05,270 --> 01:00:02,799
thick document and had uh

1572
01:00:07,750 --> 01:00:05,280
the complete history of u.s involvement

1573
01:00:10,069 --> 01:00:07,760
including uh the dna

1574
01:00:11,990 --> 01:00:10,079
uh studies it was

1575
01:00:13,109 --> 01:00:12,000
very few people ever had access to that

1576
01:00:15,030 --> 01:00:13,119
stuff

1577
01:00:16,390 --> 01:00:15,040
um and so

1578
01:00:18,309 --> 01:00:16,400
what she read

1579
01:00:20,710 --> 01:00:18,319
uh

1580
01:00:23,349 --> 01:00:20,720
i would i would assume

1581
01:00:25,270 --> 01:00:23,359
was factual at least most of it

1582
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:25,280
and after she was

1583
01:00:28,549 --> 01:00:26,640
finished reading it

1584
01:00:30,789 --> 01:00:28,559
put it back in a container

1585
01:00:32,549 --> 01:00:30,799
uh then i i took she asked me a lot of

1586
01:00:35,190 --> 01:00:32,559
questions i couldn't answer

1587
01:00:38,069 --> 01:00:35,200
and then i took her took her back

1588
01:00:40,470 --> 01:00:38,079
off off the base now i maintain contact

1589
01:00:42,789 --> 01:00:40,480
with linda howell for years

1590
01:00:45,750 --> 01:00:42,799
but i we could never recruit her as a as

1591
01:00:47,430 --> 01:00:45,760
an asset she's just too smart she knew

1592
01:00:49,750 --> 01:00:47,440
what we were trying to do

1593
01:00:52,390 --> 01:00:49,760
she didn't want to tell us sources and

1594
01:00:55,349 --> 01:00:52,400
so uh we just left it at that

1595
01:00:59,910 --> 01:00:55,359
and we we never bugged we never bugged

1596
01:01:01,510 --> 01:00:59,920
her car i mean i heard i read this uh

1597
01:01:03,750 --> 01:01:01,520
a few months ago

1598
01:01:06,150 --> 01:01:03,760
or back in november that we had

1599
01:01:08,230 --> 01:01:06,160
allegedly planted devices in her home

1600
01:01:11,430 --> 01:01:08,240
and we never did any of that that's

1601
01:01:13,430 --> 01:01:11,440
absolutely false

1602
01:01:15,510 --> 01:01:13,440
brilliant uh jefferson lee asks what

1603
01:01:17,750 --> 01:01:15,520
aerospace corporations do you know that

1604
01:01:19,430 --> 01:01:17,760
are hiding advanced physics or advanced

1605
01:01:22,549 --> 01:01:19,440
materials that are allegedly not of

1606
01:01:26,950 --> 01:01:25,030
ah

1607
01:01:29,910 --> 01:01:26,960
that's a that's a

1608
01:01:31,670 --> 01:01:29,920
it's a loaded question the um

1609
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:31,680
one of the ways the government the

1610
01:01:34,230 --> 01:01:33,119
united states government hides

1611
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:34,240
information

1612
01:01:38,390 --> 01:01:37,200
is through the contractors

1613
01:01:40,150 --> 01:01:38,400
um

1614
01:01:42,230 --> 01:01:40,160
i worked for dr put off in the institute

1615
01:01:44,630 --> 01:01:42,240
for advanced studies at austin

1616
01:01:46,870 --> 01:01:44,640
he had darpa contracts

1617
01:01:50,549 --> 01:01:46,880
and

1618
01:01:52,870 --> 01:01:50,559
just say that because i i can't talk

1619
01:01:56,309 --> 01:01:52,880
about what i did with dr put up because

1620
01:01:58,390 --> 01:01:56,319
it's proprietary uh in its

1621
01:01:59,670 --> 01:01:58,400
information so i'm not going to talk

1622
01:02:01,990 --> 01:01:59,680
talk about

1623
01:02:03,750 --> 01:02:02,000
it with exception that

1624
01:02:06,549 --> 01:02:03,760
the government hides

1625
01:02:08,950 --> 01:02:06,559
highly classified reverse engineering

1626
01:02:12,549 --> 01:02:08,960
projects within contractors because

1627
01:02:14,630 --> 01:02:12,559
contractors uh are not subject to foia

1628
01:02:16,630 --> 01:02:14,640
under title five united states code

1629
01:02:17,670 --> 01:02:16,640
they're exempt

1630
01:02:20,710 --> 01:02:17,680
so

1631
01:02:21,829 --> 01:02:20,720
i would look at e-systems

1632
01:02:24,069 --> 01:02:21,839
uh

1633
01:02:25,430 --> 01:02:24,079
skunk works

1634
01:02:27,750 --> 01:02:25,440
um

1635
01:02:30,870 --> 01:02:27,760
tektronix corporation

1636
01:02:33,349 --> 01:02:30,880
there's just a few that i would look at

1637
01:02:36,390 --> 01:02:33,359
brilliant something for people to go on

1638
01:02:38,309 --> 01:02:36,400
um a question here from insta vern

1639
01:02:40,309 --> 01:02:38,319
could you please ask him about deceptive

1640
01:02:42,150 --> 01:02:40,319
indication or warnings projects or

1641
01:02:45,510 --> 01:02:42,160
expand on what you know about

1642
01:02:49,349 --> 01:02:45,520
false inw programs

1643
01:02:51,190 --> 01:02:49,359
so i guess false flags if if anything

1644
01:02:52,549 --> 01:02:51,200
um

1645
01:02:54,230 --> 01:02:52,559
yeah i mean

1646
01:02:55,430 --> 01:02:54,240
they occur within the intelligence

1647
01:02:57,750 --> 01:02:55,440
community

1648
01:03:00,549 --> 01:02:57,760
uh we sometimes

1649
01:03:03,670 --> 01:03:00,559
we used to use uh

1650
01:03:06,069 --> 01:03:03,680
the canadian secret service

1651
01:03:07,829 --> 01:03:06,079
uh to mask some things

1652
01:03:09,670 --> 01:03:07,839
uh complicated

1653
01:03:11,029 --> 01:03:09,680
uh false flag is

1654
01:03:14,069 --> 01:03:11,039
um

1655
01:03:16,950 --> 01:03:14,079
uh using other people's identity

1656
01:03:18,789 --> 01:03:16,960
to uh to get information

1657
01:03:19,910 --> 01:03:18,799
not connecting it back to

1658
01:03:22,390 --> 01:03:19,920
to to

1659
01:03:24,470 --> 01:03:22,400
uh the origin the or

1660
01:03:26,390 --> 01:03:24,480
originating agency

1661
01:03:28,789 --> 01:03:26,400
uh that's about all i can say about it

1662
01:03:31,510 --> 01:03:28,799
because a lot of those things are still

1663
01:03:33,349 --> 01:03:31,520
pretty classified

1664
01:03:35,510 --> 01:03:33,359
that's great thank you now one final

1665
01:03:37,589 --> 01:03:35,520
question before we end is you mentioned

1666
01:03:38,789 --> 01:03:37,599
recently in in a recent interview that

1667
01:03:40,710 --> 01:03:38,799
you're actually

1668
01:03:42,150 --> 01:03:40,720
forming a new group

1669
01:03:44,230 --> 01:03:42,160
is that something that you can expand on

1670
01:03:46,069 --> 01:03:44,240
a bit or at least tell us what the what

1671
01:03:48,630 --> 01:03:46,079
you what the intentions are

1672
01:03:49,990 --> 01:03:48,640
well we have we have a group we've had a

1673
01:03:53,029 --> 01:03:50,000
group uh

1674
01:03:55,190 --> 01:03:53,039
of retired intelligence officers

1675
01:03:56,309 --> 01:03:55,200
uh we've had i've been a member for

1676
01:04:00,789 --> 01:03:56,319
years

1677
01:04:04,549 --> 01:04:03,109
work with some others some other

1678
01:04:06,630 --> 01:04:04,559
entities

1679
01:04:08,789 --> 01:04:06,640
uh for a disclosure

1680
01:04:10,950 --> 01:04:08,799
but again we have a

1681
01:04:13,270 --> 01:04:10,960
it's a it's it's a very very very

1682
01:04:15,029 --> 01:04:13,280
complicated situation

1683
01:04:16,710 --> 01:04:15,039
we number one

1684
01:04:19,510 --> 01:04:16,720
we have to be very careful that we don't

1685
01:04:21,190 --> 01:04:19,520
disclose any classified information

1686
01:04:23,029 --> 01:04:21,200
because we're going to end up being

1687
01:04:25,109 --> 01:04:23,039
prosecuted in court

1688
01:04:26,710 --> 01:04:25,119
and number two

1689
01:04:27,750 --> 01:04:26,720
we can't

1690
01:04:29,990 --> 01:04:27,760
uh

1691
01:04:31,510 --> 01:04:30,000
identify anyone within the intelligence

1692
01:04:33,910 --> 01:04:31,520
community

1693
01:04:36,390 --> 01:04:33,920
that is working on these projects

1694
01:04:38,230 --> 01:04:36,400
because there's a law

1695
01:04:40,309 --> 01:04:38,240
that that says you can't disclose an

1696
01:04:42,230 --> 01:04:40,319
undercover person an intelligence

1697
01:04:44,230 --> 01:04:42,240
officer so you you can't do that and we

1698
01:04:45,910 --> 01:04:44,240
don't want to do that

1699
01:04:49,190 --> 01:04:45,920
so um

1700
01:04:51,029 --> 01:04:49,200
we're trying to work with congress

1701
01:04:53,190 --> 01:04:51,039
people like well harry reid was one but

1702
01:04:55,750 --> 01:04:53,200
of course he died

1703
01:04:57,829 --> 01:04:55,760
marco rubio senator rubio

1704
01:04:58,710 --> 01:04:57,839
there's a number of different uh

1705
01:05:01,270 --> 01:04:58,720
um

1706
01:05:03,190 --> 01:05:01,280
senators and congressmen both

1707
01:05:05,109 --> 01:05:03,200
on both sides of the aisle both

1708
01:05:07,190 --> 01:05:05,119
democrats and republicans

1709
01:05:08,950 --> 01:05:07,200
that we're working with

1710
01:05:11,109 --> 01:05:08,960
trying to get

1711
01:05:13,270 --> 01:05:11,119
some legislation passed

1712
01:05:14,309 --> 01:05:13,280
that could protect people

1713
01:05:16,789 --> 01:05:14,319
uh

1714
01:05:20,829 --> 01:05:16,799
from disclosing certain things about the

1715
01:05:26,390 --> 01:05:23,430
disclose what we want to disclose or

1716
01:05:27,910 --> 01:05:26,400
start a really really a successful

1717
01:05:30,710 --> 01:05:27,920
disclosure

1718
01:05:32,150 --> 01:05:30,720
program we want some laws

1719
01:05:33,990 --> 01:05:32,160
on our side

1720
01:05:35,349 --> 01:05:34,000
and and that's what we we have to do

1721
01:05:37,670 --> 01:05:35,359
first

1722
01:05:39,510 --> 01:05:37,680
i appreciate that so much and rick thank

1723
01:05:41,430 --> 01:05:39,520
you so much we are out of time but i

1724
01:05:42,390 --> 01:05:41,440
really really say thank you so much for

1725
01:05:45,190 --> 01:05:42,400
coming on

1726
01:05:46,950 --> 01:05:45,200
and answering the questions um

1727
01:05:48,069 --> 01:05:46,960
it's been great i really appreciate it

1728
01:05:49,990 --> 01:05:48,079
so uh

1729
01:05:51,270 --> 01:05:50,000
yeah thank you so much you're very

1730
01:05:52,870 --> 01:05:51,280
welcome

1731
01:05:55,910 --> 01:05:52,880
take care thank you so much you're

1732
01:05:57,990 --> 01:05:55,920
welcome bye-bye

1733
01:06:00,390 --> 01:05:58,000
well guys thank you so much to everybody

1734
01:06:02,309 --> 01:06:00,400
here live watching i really appreciated

1735
01:06:04,390 --> 01:06:02,319
all the input the questions for keeping

1736
01:06:06,390 --> 01:06:04,400
it nice and mature in the chat we'll be

1737
01:06:08,549 --> 01:06:06,400
back next week but for all details on

1738
01:06:10,950 --> 01:06:08,559
upcoming shows you can follow me over on

1739
01:06:13,510 --> 01:06:10,960
instagram and on twitter all the details

1740
01:06:15,190 --> 01:06:13,520
are below but for now guys thank you so